UK Politics: Welcome to the Age of the Boris

[BillButNotBen]

So Brexit day is here. It’s the dawn of a new era apparently.

No longer will your life chances be a postcode lottery. Quite what that has to do with the EU i have no idea.

I think i’ve moved past surprise, fear and anger into resigned acceptance. The momentous day finally arriving has kinda highlighted one thing though… that Brexit will finally bring… er… the chance to… er… I’m sure there was something because a lot of people think it’s a really good idea… er…

I’ll get back to you.

[MiniMatt]

Yep, resigned acceptance that I’ll be an old man before we’ve any chance of rejoining. So I’ve decided I want to spend my life somewhere better aligned with my values; I’m leaving the UK in the summer.

The gleeful gloating of those telling me not to let the door hit me on my way out doesn’t bother me any more. They’re welcome to what they’ve created, I’ve no more interest in changing it.

[TheDreamlord]

It’s the dawn of a new era apparently.

Quite a rainy dawn …

So I’ve decided I want to spend my life somewhere better aligned with my values; I’m leaving the UK in the summer.

Best of luck!! Where are you off to, if you don’t mind me asking?

[MiniMatt]

Contract in NZ - not permanent but long enough to figure out what & where next

[Zephro]

I’ve mostly failed to notice due to excessive worrying about the pasting Scotland are going to get tomorrow when the Six Nations rolls around again.

Can’t even consider leaving for another year anyway, that’s when my wife can apply for citizenship and having dealt with 5 years of the Home Office dicking us around with stupid charges we’re not resetting that process.

[TheDreamlord]

Can’t even consider leaving for another year anyway, that’s when my wife can apply for citizenship and having dealt with 5 years of the Home Office dicking us around with stupid charges we’re not resetting that process.

I hear ya. My wife is from outside the EU and does not live here permanently due to work reasons and we rely on visitor visas (waiting for the response for a 5 year one at this moment, it is extremely stressful for me, even though we have not had issues the past 5 years).

[TheDreamlord]

Contract in NZ - not permanent but long enough to figure out what & where next

Well, they managed to fuck the contract market here in the UK as well (see IR35), so that is one more reason I guess.

[LexW]

Have they changed something about IR35? I mean it was always a bit of a mess.

[MiniMatt]

Yeah the initial principle of IR35 I didn’t mind (if it walks, talks, quacks like a job, then it should be taxed like a job) but it’s never been implemented consistently and tinkering every few years is a pain

[MiniMatt]

private companies will be liable for deciding whether a worker bee is a contractor or an employee come april. This responsibility, and the financial risk of getting it wrong, is leading to some prophecies of doom and some big players saying they won’t bother with contractors any more

[Sarfrin]

Brexit will finally bring… er… the chance to… er… I’m sure there was something because a lot of people think it’s a really good idea… er…

Gloat. Gloat about an historic victory for the ‘everyone* loses’ option.

*Wealthy hedge fund managers’ MMV.

[alms]

Remember, it doesn’t have to be a complete disaster. In the words of a not so wise man:

Hope this still makes you laugh as much as it makes me.

A door has closed, other doors will open.

[BillButNotBen]

Can’t even consider leaving for another year anyway, that’s when my wife can apply for citizenship and having dealt with 5 years of the Home Office dicking us around with stupid charges we’re not resetting that process.

I hear ya. My wife is from outside the EU and does not live here permanently due to work reasons and we rely on visitor visas (waiting for the response for a 5 year one at this moment, it is extremely stressful for me, even though we have not had issues the past 5 years).

I’m in a similar but different situation in that I’ve been wanting to come back for the past 5 years, but events and the demands of the visa/settled status rules have lead to us endlessly putting it off.

Living in a non-English speaking country and not speaking the language fluently rather limits your prospects, so going back to the UK seems like a good idea from that point of view. Though they keep making it seem more and more risky.
I guess the other option would be to try and go to a 3rd country where English is the native language… but that means being even more disconnected from culture and family and safety nets.

Of course, when you’re single none of that matters as you can always chuck it in and try something else if it doesn’t work out. But when you have family and kids, it kinda needs to go right.

[LexW]

private companies will be liable for deciding whether a worker bee is a contractor or an employee come april. This responsibility, and the financial risk of getting it wrong, is leading to some prophecies of doom and some big players saying they won’t bother with contractors any more

That sounds very like the prophecies of doom that come out of companies any time the law even potentially mildly impacts their bottom-line, even if it’s by 0.1%, and they’re always “We won’t bother with X any more!!!” and then, cut to five years later, and they’re using just as many X as ever, maybe even more.

The reason they use contractors now is that they need people with the skills, and they don’t need those positions long-term. That’s a simple logistical issue that can’t be wished away.

[TheDreamlord]

No prophecies. Most banks in the last few months have blanket-banned outside-IR35 contracts. It will eventually come back and bite them in the arse, but until then, there has been a significant disruption to most contractors. It will take some time for the changes to have an effect and for things to balance out in terms of contracts, pay, skills etc.

[Sarfrin]

Hope this still makes you laugh as much as it makes me.

It did make me laugh, so thank you.

[Wheelz]

Off-Topic:
Presumably you know people in the area, but if not feel free to flick me a message on here if you’ve got any questions or anything.

(I’m from & currently residing in NZ).

[Zephro]

The reason they use contractors now is that they need people with the skills, and they don’t need those positions long-term. That’s a simple logistical issue that can’t be wished away.

Yeah except when they don’t. Places I’ve worked as a programmer there have always been “contractors” on rolling 6 month contracts who have been there for years. When I worked in games they even tried to make promotions for full timers become contractors to get the promotion, so that they had less protections in case they decided to downsize.

Sometimes that was driven by the employees of course, though that would just piss off the other employees as they expensed lunches and shit so ate better.

[LexW]

Yeah except when they don’t. Places I’ve worked as a programmer there have always been “contractors” on rolling 6 month contracts who have been there for years. When I worked in games they even tried to make promotions for full timers become contractors to get the promotion, so that they had less protections in case they decided to downsize.

Sure, but IR35 creates the opposite problem to that. It encourages you to treat them as actual employees, and makes it risky to do otherwise.

The “doom” referred to was the idea that contractors would simply be done away with. Clearly someone who is on a rolling six-month contract cannot easily be done away with. The incentive to make people into contractors is lessened by IR35 (and the recent changes presumably make it even more unattractive).

The people it’s bad for, if I understand correctly, are those who actually want to be contractors, who companies may prefer to be employees or not have for them.

It will take some time for the changes to have an effect and for things to balance out in terms of contracts, pay, skills etc.

Yeah, that’s what I’d expect. It’s disruptive but not the permanent destruction that it is inevitably characterized as by the affected businesses. Still sucks hard for the individual contractors, of course.

[Sarfrin]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but does anyone else in the UK feel trapped in a slow motion car crash with no ability to do anything about it right now?