Total Warhammer 2

[LexW]

Definitely. I may actually play the Empire again for pretty much the first time since TW1 (I really enjoyed them there, esp. multiplayer), but a horde version of Lizardmen is also super-exciting. Especially lead by a giant Kroxigor. Praying for a deathroll-style sync-kill animation for him or the Dread Saurian.

This also has me excited for the Greenskin revamp which is allegedly coming, because maybe they’ll add a lord for them too - Grom the Paunch, who once invaded Ulthuan seems the obvious candidate.

[Imaginary_Llamas]

Today CA announced that Gotrek & Felix are being added to the game, and Gotrek will be voiced by Brian Blessed! https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-gotrek-felix-faq/
Looks like a similar deal to when they added Grombrindal in the first Total Warhammer, where they will be temporarily exclusive to people who buy the next issue of White Dwarf and then released to everyone else a month later or so.

[The_Velour_Fog]

not a Warhammer fan per se but all of this sounds right up my alley…my one problem with the Total War style games is the micro managing of the battles themselves…does this have some sort of competent AI that will allow a more hands-off approach? I am aware of auto-resolve but something part way between would be nice…i’m just not interested in working out flanking and infantry and where to put my archers and all that. What about a “Suggested Setup” button or the like?

[Shadoko]

competent AI

We are talking about a Total War game…

[LexW]

There isnt a proper suggested setup for Warhammer, annoyingly. There is for other Total War games like Three Kingdoms or Britannia and contrary to Shadoko it actually does do a solid job. With Warhammer the problem is that too many units are too bizarre I think. Like does an ankylosaur with a laser cannon on the back go in a artillery position or a melee one. It’s tough in melee too, and the laser cannon is direct fire so can’t fire past tall units. What about an ankylosaur with a giant healing aura crystal on the back?

You see the issue I think. Some units are very standard archers cavalry etc but many, perhaps most, have some sort of peculiarity.

If you want the AI to fight your battle but not use the ever-dodgy autoresolve (way less bad than it used to be but…) that however Is possible with a mod.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1158993779&searchtext=Spectator+mode

That lets you hand over some or all of your units to the AI and is updated for the latest patch.

[arathain]

I don’t really see why there couldn’t be an automatic set-up. I mean, the AI sets up its army. It doesn’t do the greatest job, but it gets the basics right. You could have a button that just does that.

It’s does have a bunch of micro, but it does give you tools to manage it. Like, holding alt lets you drag your selected units around in outline. Let go and they won’t lose their formation as they march. Formation locked groups can be given a single attack order and each unit will seek out its own target- handy for your main line engaging theirs without losing formation. That said, there’s no getting round the micro for cavalry, range units, wizards…

[LexW]

That said, there’s no getting round the micro for cavalry, range units, wizards…

Well, you can use the Spectator Mode II mod like I said - you can apply it to individual units, and it’ll do the micro for you.

[Imaginary_Llamas]

I might try out that spectator mod. I don’t mind a bit of micro, but units like shock cavalry and chariots that require almost constant attention to be any good aren’t my thing. As such, I’ve mainly just avoided the issuing by sticking to infantry-heavy armies with only a few cavalry units. This works for many factions, but Bretonnia and Wood Elves are too cavalry/skirmish-oriented for me to enjoy them properly.

[Grizzly]

I don’t really see why there couldn’t be an automatic set-up. I mean, the AI sets up its army. It doesn’t do the greatest job, but it gets the basics right. You could have a button that just does that.

Isn’t that just “select all units, click a formation you want” though? How would this be different from what’s already in the game?

[Imaginary_Llamas]

Compared to the previous waits, it feels strange to have a new DLC only three months after the previous one. I don’t remember what CA’s roadmap is for TWH2, but there can’t be that many more DLCs planned before they release TWH3. Ninja Skaven + Demonic Dark Elf this time around.

Although playing as a guy possessed by a demon sounds fun, I can’t say I find any of the new units to be particularly interesting. I think this will be the first TWH2 DLC I don’t pick up on release.

[LexW]

Huh, Malus was like everyone’s second-place or third-place guess, and pretty much no-one was guessing Clan Eshin.

Personally, Clan Eshin is my favourite Skaven clan by miles, and from my early 1990s perspective seems the most “Skaven-y” of all Skaven clans, so I’m excited about that. Maybe I’ll actually finish a Skaven campaign!

Malus is… meh. I mean I guess. If he is a Dark Elf who doesn’t play the standard Vortex campaign though, that alone would be enough to make me buy this. Sounds like both are just standard Vortex mechanics though, and if that is the case, well, maybe I won’t get it day 1 either.

I agree that none of the units are particularly exciting. Medusae are cool, but yet another chariot to sit dusty and unused? No thanks. Also do the Skaven really need more artillery? They already have incredible artillery, which is cheap and low-tier, that likely outcompetes this stuff in everything but mobility (which is rarely an issue).

The FreeLC lord is pretty cool - she’s been suggested a few times but I don’t think anyone expected her here - Repanse du Lyonesse - not the Joan of Arc figure one might expect, but actually a D&D Paladin type who has super-badass equipment and powers and is the Duke (Duchess?) of Couronne.

[LexW]

Okay wow so a lot more information has come out about the next TW2 patch and it is all EXTREMELY good.

1. by going through and optimizing virtually every single thing that happens on a turn-end, they’ve reduced end-turn times by 60%. Some Streamers say 80% reduction is more accurate! That’s completely mad but great.

2. The FLC lord is Repanse du Lyonesse as noted. Not only does she seem to be pretty great generally, but she starts in Araby, in both Mortal Empires AND Vortex, and has a unique Vortex campaign!

3. Malus Darkblade does, as I had hoped, have a non-standard Vortex campaign (though I’m not entirely clear what the actual mechanics are). It looks like Deathmaster Snikch may also have a unique Vortex campaign. So that’s really good.

4. Black Arks can attack (and take) coastal settlements, have leaders who can level up and generally no longer suck. They will likely now be an appalling menace rather than just a drain on Dark Elf resources.

5. Mortal Empires map is expanded slightly and there’s a bunch of landmarks and stuff (and some new “NPC” factions.

Malus, Repanse and Snikch also look like they have pretty cool abilities. Snikch has the hilarious once per one hundred turns ability, gained at level 30, to effectively a delete an entire faction from the game.

So both the add-on and the patch that go with it are sounding pretty promising.

[Zephro]

Best thing from the patch notes:
The Empire → Reikland
Dwarfs → Karaz-a-Karak
Greenskins → Black Crag
Vampire Counts → Sylvania
Vampire Coast → The Awakened
Bretonnia → Couronne
Wood Elves → Talsyn
Norsca → World Walkers

Finally! That’s been driving me nuts since the first one came out.

[mrpier]

The end-turn times, so, so good. I’ve usually had an article or two to read on alt-tab while I was waiting for TW:W2 to finish processing its turns. I have 700 hours played on steam, and I dread to think how much of that is waiting for my turn again.

[LexW]

Right? It’s insane. It easily more than halved by end turn waits, as promised. Battle and out of battle loads are also quicker.

And yes I have 1000 hours myself and an awful lot of that has to be waiting on turn-ends and particularly loading out of battles. Its already kind of changed how I play in that I am press next turn much more readily, rather than fiddling around to be 100% certain about everything.

[Zephro]

I’ve got the new update but I hadn’t actually got the Vampire Coast DLC so I’m playing that currently. They’re kinda fiddly but I’m getting the hang of it. The melee units are borderline pointless. Then microing some of the shooty units is a nuisance.

[LexW]

The zombie melee? Yeah they exist to hold the enemy in place so you can shoot them. They’re not likely to kill much by themselves.

You shouldn’t have to micro the gun-zombies too much if you form your battle line so it has holes in it for the gun-zombies to shoot through (or use more elaborate gun-friendly formations), but with all long-gun units in TWW2 there is a lot of value in moving them around the edges of the battle line and to the side and back of the enemy melee once they’ve engaged.

There’s a good MS paint guide to gun formations here: https://imgur.com/a/NnQdt#uRh1OA0

Massively improved how I used guns for all the factions that have them. Checkerboard is easy. You can do it by using ctrl and selecting melee-gun-melee-gun-melee-gun etc. - melee on both ends ideally, then dragging the line into position, then you select each gun unit and press the down arrow 2-4 times to get them far enough back. All the stuff with chevrons is a bit more micro intensive so I don’t normally use that though it is hilariously effective - shields don’t protect units being shot from the side/back.

Depth Guard are a tricky unit, because they have regen, but each model has low HP (usually you only see regen on really low model-count units) and this being TW each one is tracking it’s HP separately and so on. In situations where they’re exposed to semi-constant low damage they do great (like melee with weak enemies, or fighting on the wall), and if they hit an enemy from behind/the side they do great. But they aren’t as tanky as that high armour and regen might initially suggest.

[sonson]

Are the Vampire Coast quite shooty then? I could go for a shooty army campaign

[LexW]

They are extremely shooty, yes. The backbone of early-game armies is zombies with muskets and zombie mortars (basically the same as Empire mortars). There are also zombies with cutlass and pistol or grenades and cutlass or a short-range wide-bore cannon, big zombies with what are basically anti-tank cannons, zombies being carried by giant bats (with muskets, pistols, or grenades), cannons, the mother of all artillery (Queen Bess), undead ship-golems with triple-cannons, off-field artillery, and suicide-bomber zombies (the classic bloated corpse type). Aside from all that they have a variety of monsters/monstrous infantry, some scary ghosts and their lords are largely vampires, and they have some elite vampire infantry units (Depth Guard). Plus they have a spell where a ghost galleon appears and fires a particularly unpleasant ghost-broadside into the enemy.

They and the Tomb Kings are exceptionally well-designed, albeit at opposite ends of the complexity scale in campaign. TKs are very straightforward - arguably more so than the default TWW2 armies, with simple, direct mechanics. Vampire Coast are extremely complex with about fourteen different things going on in campaign, though you can ignore most of them and still do okay (unlike some of the more fiddly mechanics in Warhammer).

[Shadoko]

zombies with muskets and zombie mortars

I have no real interest for TW or Warhammer at this point but the mental image I just associated wuth this sentence made my day.