“alison’s position may be eloquently expressed, but eloquence should not be a substitute for having a solid argument, nor should it make presenting a one-sided position seem acceptable.”
Yes, absolutely, I agree with you and I should have phrased my sentences more carefully. And also:
“This debate was sorted out in most of the West decades ago, with a very clear yes. Indeed prior to Corbett in 1970, it was a yes in Britain. Only a bad judgment where a judge mused endlessly about people’s genitalia even reversed that position”
Thanks for pointing this out, I was not aware of that.
“This whole pretense that this is some wacky young people deal”
It absolutely isn’t! We’re talking about very real people going through very real struggles. Furthermore, it would be a mistake to dismiss even so-called “wacky young people deals”, in my opinion. Young people are the future (corny as this may sound) and it’s up to them to push progressive thought (and then policies) forward to places where people of my generation are maybe unable to do.
Also, about what Grizzly said:
Yes, Tim’s position could very well be informed by ignorance… And so is mine! I guess what I’m trying to say here is that (speaking personally now) I consider myself an “ally” and very progressive in my views. If me, Grizzly and LexW found ourselves talking face to face in front of a coffee I would probably do most of the listening and we’d probably find out that we agree on the whole line. On the other hand, the discussion, as it took place here and on the original article, was framed by some as being about human rights, or even the right to exist of individuals, things that I feel were never honestly in question.
Going back to my point about ignorance, yes the onus of educating myself falls on me, especially on arguments I intend to speak in a public forum about. But it’s also the onus of people like you who are more fluent in the struggle not to dismiss “working class dads” and maybe repeat the same stuff over and over AND OVER again, stuff you have learned and internalized and take as common knowledge.
(Thank you for the links and articles posted)