The Windows 10 Resistance Thread

[Bobtree]

MS blocks windows update on Windows 7/8 systems with new 7th generation CPUs.

[somini]

MS blocks windows update on Windows 7/8 systems with new 7th generation CPUs.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

I’m not sure but that doesn’t mean the windows update process doesn’t keep wasting power and thrashing the disk in the background. I had a machine grinding to a halt over that the other day, wrote over 3gb of junk to disk and survived killing svchost.

[somini]

Oh, and this should go on the other thread, no? "so, Windows 10"
This is for taking windows or if your life

[ZakG]

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

I’m not sure but that doesn’t mean the windows update process doesn’t keep wasting power and thrashing the disk in the background. I had a machine grinding to a halt over that the other day, wrote over 3gb of junk to disk and survived killing svchost.

It was announced a while back that future Intel processors will require Windows 10 (i think it started with kabylake?), so this has been known about for a good few months (one of my earlier posts mentioned it, probably in the Windows 10 thread?). Thank god AMD are actually back in the CPU competition

[TechnicalBen]

It was announced for windows 10… never heard anyone say for 7.

[ZakG]

Well i did mention it sometime back, that Future Intel CPU’s were going to only work on Windows 10. If i can be bothered finding the post i’ll edit the link in here. I’ve known about it for a few months now. Here it is, post #3 (march 2016):

But in all seriousness, this resistance will ultimately be futile vs Microsofts wishes for us all to have Windows 10. This will not be a repeat of the XP situation, MS have learnt from that and now with DX12 and the latest intel processors all requiring Windows 10, they have effectively ensured a Windows 10 future for us all.

However there is a solution, you can stop using MS. It’s not the easiest of choices perhaps, but certainly easier now than it ever has been. For now you can resist the might of ‘Rome’ and keep with your (hopefully) perfectly working and fine Windows 7 OS (it has extended support for a few more years while you make the move away from MS), or 8 if you made that small mistake

Anyway i was surprised to see my post here, but i like it’s edited jibe and purpose. Long live the resistance, down with Rome!

So yeah DX12 also Windows 10 only. It’s a true gameplan to take away choice.

[TechnicalBen]

None of that mentions windows 7 or 8 though… So taking functionality away from 7 or 8 for an “update” service/program seems rather “nice computer you have there, pity if something were to happen to it”…

Last time I checked, very few developers did not support a CPU because it was “old”, only because it did not offer specific features. Things like Chrome can work backwards a very long time, why not windows update? (I’d assume it has to do with hardware keys/DRM at this point with MS)

Nothing wrong with future programs not working, but taking it out of working programs… hmmm.

[Bobtree]

Only supporting new gear on 10 is different from sabotaging updates on older OS.

Because of how this support policy is implemented, Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 devices that have a seventh generation or a later generation processor may no longer be able to scan or download updates through Windows Update or Microsoft Update.

I have seen indications that you can install Win7 on a new unsupported chip and install updates manually (like the security only monthlies) instead of through windows update.

Oh, and this should go on the other thread, no?

No. It’s about windows update on 7/8.

[Zephro]

Well i did mention it sometime back, that Future Intel CPU’s were going to only work on Windows 10. If i can be bothered finding the post i’ll edit the link in here. I’ve known about it for a few months now. Here it is, post #3 (march 2016):

It’s important to phrase that the other way around. Windows 10 will be the only MS OS to support new Intel CPUs. Intel CPUs are going to work on anything that bothers to implement the new interfaces. So they will run OSX, Linux, BSD, Android, whatever homebrew OS you feel like building yourself.

This is entirely MS deciding to not bother implementing the xHCI USB controller drivers for their old versions. Which is unusual but not unheard of. It’s more that it’s unusual this short into the lifespan of Windows 10.

Hardware incompatibility like this isn’t too rare. Just OS vendors tend to put a lot more work into doing something about it. The most common one is SSE, or I guess FMA or whatever nowadays, if you get some binary with it compiled in and you don’t have the extension on your CPU that software isn’t running. People have mostly masked this by using DLLs to dynamically switch versions of compiled code depending on the CPU. Or by just incredibly slow uptake of x86 extensions. Back in the 90s it was MMX that did this, or early 90s having some program with floating point instructions compiled in, oh you’ve still got a 386? This needs a 486 minimum. Huh I’ve not hacked any PC, C code in fuck ages.

Anyway article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/02/windows_intel_kaby_lake_amd_zen/

[TechnicalBen]

Yeah, I think that is where my confusion is. Is this Windows not updating 7 and 8 ever… or not updating Ryzen/Intel 7th gen CPUs if you have 7 and 8?

If they’ve stopped all updates for 7 and 8 (Past and future virus definitions, for example)… then they can go jump off a cliff… if it’s just Win10/Ryzen/Intel7th effected then fine, that is understandable (like the Win 95 to XP or XP to Win7 jumps).

[Bobtree]

MS are still updating 7 and 8 (until 2020 and 2023). But, if they’re installed on a 7th gen CPU, the windows updater will simply refuse to work.

The lifecycle sheet shows 10 will be supported until 2025. If 10 is truly “the last version of windows”, I don’t know what that means. Perhaps then free support will end and it will require subscriptions. Or maybe “last” just meant latest/previous. Whatever the case, I don’t have faith or trust in MS.

[TechnicalBen]

Which again is strange. Not allowing certain programs fine. But not allowing existing programs that run on it… and just disabling the updater… strange.

“Last” is easy to decipher, it is “latest buzzword from our advertising department, we hope you forget it when version [next] comes out and we want to sell it”. If Windows is going to a service type sales/support model, then it will keep the name “Windows 10” but be anything but as they will need revisions (as Android/iOS does).

[ZakG]

Actually Microsoft is going to actively block Windows 7 and 8.1 from being able to use Ryzen and Kabylake CPU’s:

‘Blocking Windows 7, 8.1 updates for Kaby Lake, Ryzen chips appears imminent’:

https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/03/windows-7-8-ryzen-kaby-lake-support/

So if your building a new PC based on those, and wish to use your 7 or 8.1 OS, you better hurry up!

[TechnicalBen]

Again. I’m confused. Do they currently… yes they do, we have games/previews/reviews and benchmarks… they work on that platform.

So MS is sabotaging back their OSs?

[ZakG]

It’s very weird, and unprecedented (i think?). I’m reading reports of guys trying to run Ryzen on their Linux Mint distro and having problems etc. It seems like maybe MS put pressure on AMD to make it this way? If these are not issues that can be ‘fixed’ then i pretty much have come to the end of my desire to be a tech/hardware PC person, we need a new platform free from MS (or Apple!) imho.

[TechnicalBen]

Nah. Won’t be that. If Linux is having trouble, it’s limits/time/resources in getting updates out. Mint is not cutting edge. Ryzen is a new design so it is expected.

But as said… it works on 7 and 8. Stopping future updates for it is one thing… blocking existing use? I’ve not seen that written down yet. I think somewhere a misunderstanding is.

[DanMan]

It’s very weird, and unprecedented (i think?). I’m reading reports of guys trying to run Ryzen on their Linux Mint distro and having problems etc. It seems like maybe MS put pressure on AMD to make it this way?

I’m often quick to join the MS Hatewagon, but this is definitely conspiracy territory at its finest. I’m sure MS has nothing to do with that.

I’ve also read that from kernel 4.10 on, Ryzen works just fine so…

[ZakG]

It was just a couple of posts from Ryzen Mint users i read yesterday, but if kernel updates solve the issues then that is a relief, i would like to try Ryzen at some point, and if Windows (except 10) is ‘locked out’ from being an option i was worried the same may also apply to Linux. Glad the Linux path is still open if it does work fine with the newer kernels, i’ll certainly be keeping my eyes on this.

But as said… it works on 7 and 8. Stopping future updates for it is one thing… blocking existing use? I’ve not seen that written down yet. I think somewhere a misunderstanding is.

Maybe? I did read something yesterday that made it sound like if you were running Windows 7 (or 8) on Ryzen (or the latest Intel) you would get a message from the update manager along the lines of either ‘Your CPU is not supported for updates on your OS, you will need to upgrade to Windows 10 to receive updates’ or a more confusing ‘error’ type message (like ‘error 125, Windows Updates can not continue, please consult windows error report xyz for information’). That report DID make it sound like it will block ALL Windows Updates from being possible.

If i can find that report again i’ll put the link here. Ok it was on Toms Hardware:

Microsoft Suspends Win 7/8.1 Updates For Intel Kaby Lake, AMD Ryzen CPUs

That sounds like it outright blocks Windows Updates on those OS?

[TechnicalBen]

Interesting: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/23/microsoft_onedrive_linux_slow/

Not that it necessarily happens to many people, but if your cloud services are going slow… might be worth looking up how to spoof a different OS in your web browser.

[ZakG]

This is a decent view on what is going on with the update process re dropping 7&8 on the new CPU’s, and various aspects around it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5mFI9spp10