Elite: Dangerous Discussion

[Blackcompany]

Honestly, I think the stuff is being reprioritized to a date of roughly “Never.” I really think Beyond is it.

Mediocre reviews. Terrible sales numbers. No real revenue streams beyond what has to be dwindling cosmetic sales. A completely inept dev team, or at least lead. I would be very much surprised if there IS anything past this year. Pleasantly surprised, if its actually good (which it wont be). But surprised, nonetheless.

[Curry]

I’m afraid that you’re right, Blackcompany. Elite has really squandered it’s amazing flight model for… a time sink?

Why, dear God, why?

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Because skin shop. The reason they made the game “always online” was so they could hawk microtransactions.

It’s the same reason a lot of things with Fdev are done the way they are, you need to think of the company as a skeevy used car salesman trying to nickel and dime you out of every last penny. Their take on Theme Park is great as a visual sandbox but is preciously light on actual game elements because they’re more interested in selling you DLC rather than providing you with a hard experience unlike say Parkitect.

Elite Dangerous was compromised so they could sell ship paint skins and ship kits rather than provide an end to end experience which could then have proper content added on to because they couldn’t work out a proper way to develop actual content for it (even NMS has somewhat solved that conundrum).

The whole aim of selling you games is not to sell you a game but to sell you a platform from which they can then sell you more “things”.

[Chaz]

New exploration changes have been revealed.

All looks quite good. No more random USS’s and POI’s, thank bloody fuck for that! The Q4 update should shape up to be pretty good. Personally, I’m getting quite excited about it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/447043-Chapter-Four-Exploration-Reveal

[Chaz]

Looking good for the Q4 update. Here’s a reddit round up of the impressions of some of the community folks that were invited to see it at the Frontier offices and ask questions direct to the devs making it. Looking forward to finding out what the NDA’d features are, as all that’s been shown in any sort of depth so far has been the mining and exploration changes, and even then not all of it.

https://old.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/9jvmpy/community_guest_fdev_visit_33_impressions/?st=jmqglxec&sh=4677c531

[Det.Bullock]

So, I jumped back in to try the new exploration system.
It’s interesting, you don’t need to get close to view materials available anymore but you can’t just honk and go on about your business if you want to see what exactly is in the system, you need to slow down to minimum supercruise, open the scanner and fiddle a bit with the sensors to get the various non-stellar bodies into focus, this is better done from outside the main orbit plane as the detailed scanner can’t see through stars or large bodies in general.
There are also some new commands to go with it, for now I’m binding them like this (the ones in purple):

Still have to commend Frontier for the comprehensive control options, I think it might be the only game that allowed me to actually use the throttle wheel at the base of the stick for something other than, well, throttle control. I tried to use the analog ministick for scanner tuning but the wheel worked much better, if a bit jittery.
Of course if you want to actually map a planet you have to get really close and launch probes at it, but you don’t need to get close to see if a planetary body is worth the hassle.
Unfortunately the new exploration codex only applies for stuff registered after the update, so I’m slowly making my way to my first Earthlike so I can properly map it (thankfully I took plenty of screenshots from the cockpit view and was thus able to identify the system) and even got a new one in the process, still a long way to go.

EDIT

Corrected error with the URL of the JPEG diagram of the control scheme, I saved then uploaded the thing directly now.

[Dave_L]

I’m just using hat left/right for tuning, hat up/down for zooms, with joystick to pan and it works great.

With the new exploration tools I finally bought and a-rated (plus some engineering on the FSD) an Asp Explorer, and I’m doing a 300+ jump passenger mission right now. It’s kind of funny to jump into systems and see a bunch of UNEXPLORED in the system list, indicating that someone has been there before, but then opening the FSS and every planet I scan doesn’t have a ‘first discovered by X’ on it, presumably due to people just honk-and-jumping with the old system. I figure by the time I finish this the scan data will roughly double the payout of the mission.

I’m a little disappointed that either all the “rumoured” stuff in the Codex was discovered in the first week, or Frontier haven’t actually put any rumoured things in yet. Also I wish that there was some flag on the system list to show whether you’ve mapped a planet or not when doing the detailed planetary scans, as it can sometimes get hard to keep track of which ones I’ve mapped. Also also don’t like that when in the DSS your heading and throttle are locked when launching probes. Non-zero chance of dropping out of orbit at high speed.

[Det.Bullock]

I’m just using hat left/right for tuning, hat up/down for zooms, with joystick to pan and it works great.

With the new exploration tools I finally bought and a-rated (plus some engineering on the FSD) an Asp Explorer, and I’m doing a 300+ jump passenger mission right now. It’s kind of funny to jump into systems and see a bunch of UNEXPLORED in the system list, indicating that someone has been there before, but then opening the FSS and every planet I scan doesn’t have a ‘first discovered by X’ on it, presumably due to people just honk-and-jumping with the old system. I figure by the time I finish this the scan data will roughly double the payout of the mission.

I’m a little disappointed that either all the “rumoured” stuff in the Codex was discovered in the first week, or Frontier haven’t actually put any rumoured things in yet. Also I wish that there was some flag on the system list to show whether you’ve mapped a planet or not when doing the detailed planetary scans, as it can sometimes get hard to keep track of which ones I’ve mapped. Also also don’t like that when in the DSS your heading and throttle are locked when launching probes. Non-zero chance of dropping out of orbit at high speed.

Unless you get really close and don’t cut the throttle completely chance of dropping out is zero in my experience (it literally never happened to me).

[Blackcompany]

Not a fan of the new exploration scanner. But I do like the new mining and DSS options quite a lot.

[Chaz]

I haven’t tried the new mining yet, but looking forward to give it a go. Still getting used to the new exploration scanner, as I haven’t figured out the nuances yet. Same goes with the DSS. I can fire off the probes and all that but still don’t really have much feel for where they’re going to land yet, and the flipside planet view just makes it even more confusing. I’m sure it’ll click and I’ll twig it all at some point though.

I do like the way you can find all the USS’s without flying about aimlessly now. Such a big quality of life improvement. I notice you can also use the probes to find hotspots in the rings for certain materials now. I had hoped the probes would do the same for surface mining, but that unfortunately, is still a case of land in a random spot and just drive around looking for signals and hoping you get lucky with the drops. If there are geological sites though, they make materials gathering a lot easier, as they have lots of material nodes in a relatively small area.

[Det.Bullock]

I haven’t tried the new mining yet, but looking forward to give it a go. Still getting used to the new exploration scanner, as I haven’t figured out the nuances yet. Same goes with the DSS. I can fire off the probes and all that but still don’t really have much feel for where they’re going to land yet, and the flipside planet view just makes it even more confusing. I’m sure it’ll click and I’ll twig it all at some point though.

I do like the way you can find all the USS’s without flying about aimlessly now. Such a big quality of life improvement. I notice you can also use the probes to find hotspots in the rings for certain materials now. I had hoped the probes would do the same for surface mining, but that unfortunately, is still a case of land in a random spot and just drive around looking for signals and hoping you get lucky with the drops. If there are geological sites though, they make materials gathering a lot easier, as they have lots of material nodes in a relatively small area.

It’s not that hard unless you are dealing with a gas giant, I usually aim one in front, two at the “middle points” (that notch that appears when you move away from the planet while aiming) on the sides and two almost at the “extreme points” (just a bit before the “miss” warning shows up) up or down to send them to the rear of the planet (keep in mind that this way the probe sent up will land down and vice-versa but it’s easier to find an aiming spot this way), that usually takes care of it well within the optimal scanning whatever. Keep in mind that only 90% coverage is really necessary so always aim for the bigger unmapped zones and don’t bother with the smaller ones.

[alms]

I was looking at E:D a few days ago, shortly after the Steam Winter sale went online.

The base game is 5.99 and that becomes 11.99 with Horizons and (some, not a lot of) stuff. Unfortunately it was the Positive Steam reviews that turned me off again.

They sounded like, “yes this game is no fun, it’s hard to get into and you’ll have to spend as much time outside the game, to learn how to play it properly, as you spend waiting for things, in the game. But in the end, after putting in the real effort, and discipline, and studiousness, it might dawn on you that it’s truly an acquired taste, after all.”

To be fair, a lot of “it’s not as bad as it looks” pitches that are given elsewhere to doubting, prospective newcomers, do not sound unlike the paragraph above, except the Positive Steam reviews were more effective in persuading me that there’s either more productive and/or more interesting things to do out there, than play E:D.

[Dave_L]

Five probes for a six-probe efficiency target planet: One in the facing center, one with edge of the reticle touching the outside of horizon line (or sometimes maybe a fingers-width outside it. This will almost always land the probe centered on the far side of the planet), three with the reticle centered on the horizon line in an equilateral-ish triangle.

Six probes for a seven: Pretty much the same thing, but with four probes on the horizon line done on the compass points.

I haven’t really bothered surface mapping gas giants. Usually only map water worlds or Earthlikes (if I could find one. Dammit.) And planets where I’m going to park because I’ve still got around 200 jumps to get home.

[Det.Bullock]

I was looking at E:D a few days ago, shortly after the Steam Winter sale went online.

The base game is 5.99 and that becomes 11.99 with Horizons and (some, not a lot of) stuff. Unfortunately it was the Positive Steam reviews that turned me off again.

They sounded like, “yes this game is no fun, it’s hard to get into and you’ll have to spend as much time outside the game, to learn how to play it properly, as you spend waiting for things, in the game. But in the end, after putting in the real effort, and discipline, and studiousness, it might dawn on you that it’s truly an acquired taste, after all.”

To be fair, a lot of “it’s not as bad as it looks” pitches that are given elsewhere to doubting, prospective newcomers, do not sound unlike the paragraph above, except the Positive Steam reviews were more effective in persuading me that there’s either more productive and/or more interesting things to do out there, than play E:D.

Here’s the thing: there really isn’t much waiting in the game per se. Long journeys can become tedious but unless you want to explore they are easily avoidable by looking at the galactic map before accepting the missions (there’s a link in the mission page itself that shows you the destination) and nowadays collecting materials is much less boring because you can buy and sell them at some stations so even common materials you stumble on can be used to buy rarer stuff that’s a pain in the ass to find.
Also people seem to ignore the training tutorials, if anything E: D is simpler than something like X3.

PS: it’s basically the same as Dark Souls, people say it’s difficult because they rush into things like it was God of War and get punished for it but if you play it safe is a rather chill experience, with Elite you get a lot of people that can’t dock at a station because they willfully ignore that they can just slow down a moment and use the traslation thrusters because it’s just not something they are used to in most games.

PPS: unless they are referring to playing on line and in that case there have been cases of dicking queues at stations, and very long ones at that.

[alms]

I’ve read reviews that actually criticized the quality of the tutorials, one I remember claimed that the Combat tutorial being too hard for a new player to complete, is a commonly acknowledged fact ?

Mind, with the game being this cheap I am tempted, but then again I think I would start looking at HOTAS, because deep inside I am that kind of person, so…

PS: it’s basically the same as Dark Souls, people say it’s difficult because they rush into things

That seems a somewhat slippery comparison I mean, Dark Souls is an action RPG that anybody with a minimum of controller literacy can jump into. You are right that many wax lyrical on Dark Souls because they hit a wall and keep bashing their heads on it, instead of looking for cracks, however the game does not make it hard to get there, whereas E:D does contain a sim, and that’s a type of difficulty that’s more like if you’d have to spend hours in Dark Souls to learn how to stand, then walk, and only after putting in the mandatory amount of work you could begin looking into how to swing a sword.

[Det.Bullock]

I’ve read reviews that actually criticized the quality of the tutorials, one I remember claimed that the Combat tutorial being too hard for a new player to complete, is a commonly acknowledged fact ?

Mind, with the game being this cheap I am tempted, but then again I think I would start looking at HOTAS, because deep inside I am that kind of person, so…

PS: it’s basically the same as Dark Souls, people say it’s difficult because they rush into things

That seems a somewhat slippery comparison I mean, Dark Souls is an action RPG that anybody with a minimum of controller literacy can jump into. You are right that many wax lyrical on Dark Souls because they hit a wall and keep bashing their heads on it, instead of looking for cracks, however the game does not make it hard to get there, whereas E:D does contain a sim, and that’s a type of difficulty that’s more like if you’d have to spend hours in Dark Souls to learn how to stand, then walk, and only after putting in the mandatory amount of work you could begin looking into how to swing a sword.

Keep in mind that ED is perfectly playable with a controller, I’ve seen people with a HOTAS struggling with docking procedures because they don’t seem to understand they need to slow down instead of rushing to the landing pad (which is indeed possible to an extent but even I rarely do it unless I happen to stick with the same ship for enough time).

The problem is that the combat training has a few missions that are the real tutorial plus one that is a sort of challenge mission you aren’t really expected to complete, a bit like the firt tutorial mission in Tie Fighter was a tutorial for the first few waves then it became a challenge mode that to this day I never managed to complete.

[alms]

Keep in mind that ED is perfectly playable with a controller

That’s cool, but I can barely stand playing ETS2 with one and everybody, as well as their feline implement, say it’s a great way to play it (it isn’t, it’s just less trouble than a wheel).

I love playing on the controller, games that are designed for it, much less those which are shoehorned into supporting one because otherwise goodbye customers.

Is there an affordable HOTAS that doesn’t suck and has separate stick and throttle BTW?

[Det.Bullock]

Keep in mind that ED is perfectly playable with a controller

That’s cool, but I can barely stand playing ETS2 with one and everybody, as well as their feline implement, say it’s a great way to play it (it isn’t, it’s just less trouble than a wheel).

I love playing on the controller, games that are designed for it, much less those which are shoehorned into supporting one because otherwise goodbye customers.

Is there an affordable HOTAS that doesn’t suck and has separate stick and throttle BTW?

Elite is extremely customizable, you can do most things using menus but you can also bind those functions to specific buttons if you have buttons available in your controller of choice.

Regarding HOTAS systems there just isn’t much choice, the most economical is the Thrustmaster FCS which is basically a bundle with what originally was a standalone stick (so with a button layout that’s not optimal) with a throttle peripheral, anything else is either more expensive or is like the Thrustmaster HOTAS X that is throttle and stick are one piece.

Or, since Elite allows it you can get a Logitech 3D pro and buy the Thrustmaster TCWS throttle and use those since the 3D Pro has a better button layout than the thrustmaster FCS stick IMHO.

Of course you won’t be able to use the full potential of their software suites if you want to use it for older games and have to use some third party program like Joystick Gremlin.

[Blackcompany]

I was looking at E:D a few days ago, shortly after the Steam Winter sale went online.

The base game is 5.99 and that becomes 11.99 with Horizons and (some, not a lot of) stuff. Unfortunately it was the Positive Steam reviews that turned me off again.

They sounded like, “yes this game is no fun, it’s hard to get into and you’ll have to spend as much time outside the game, to learn how to play it properly, as you spend waiting for things, in the game. But in the end, after putting in the real effort, and discipline, and studiousness, it might dawn on you that it’s truly an acquired taste, after all.”

To be fair, a lot of “it’s not as bad as it looks” pitches that are given elsewhere to doubting, prospective newcomers, do not sound unlike the paragraph above, except the Positive Steam reviews were more effective in persuading me that there’s either more productive and/or more interesting things to do out there, than play E:D.

Do you like the act of flying the ships? And I mean really, really like it? Because that is the only selling point of Elite.

Elite really is not much of a game. Its long periods spent waiting. Either on loading screens, or staring while your ships flies straight ahead in order to reach some destination which might provide a couple of minutes of real, actual flying. Unless you are a combat pilot, there is simply not much game play involved in this game. And they have even managed to add so many armor reinforcements and shield restores, that what used to be dogfighting has become a capital ship slog even with small ships, bogging down a formerly sleek, exciting affair to the point of mind numbing tedium.

So unless you really like flying ships, I would give it a pass. Double Damage is releasing a space game early next year that qualifies as an actual game, not a tech demo with a combat module tacked on. Honestly, I recommend waiting for that.

[Chaz]

Thrustmaster HOTAS X that is throttle and stick are one piece.

You can actually split them apart and the cable between them is a reasonable length. I would definitely recommend one before buying anything else more expensive if you’re only thinking of dipping your feet into the waters. I had one for ages before I upgraded to the TCWS with throttle and pedals. Don’t use the pedals for ED though.

I was looking at E:D a few days ago, shortly after the Steam Winter sale went online.

The base game is 5.99 and that becomes 11.99 with Horizons and (some, not a lot of) stuff. Unfortunately it was the Positive Steam reviews that turned me off again.

They sounded like, “yes this game is no fun, it’s hard to get into and you’ll have to spend as much time outside the game, to learn how to play it properly, as you spend waiting for things, in the game. But in the end, after putting in the real effort, and discipline, and studiousness, it might dawn on you that it’s truly an acquired taste, after all.”

To be fair, a lot of “it’s not as bad as it looks” pitches that are given elsewhere to doubting, prospective newcomers, do not sound unlike the paragraph above, except the Positive Steam reviews were more effective in persuading me that there’s either more productive and/or more interesting things to do out there, than play E:D.

The main thing I would say about ED if you’re on the fence about getting into it, is that at its core, it is a sim. And as such, it comes with all the usual sim aspects, such as having to spend a good long while configuring a decent control scheme for yourself, as in lots of buttons to map and learn, a bit of a steep learning curve, gameplay that feels like it was just slapped on around the sim’s core mechanics afterwards rather than from the get go. Just as with any other sim, you will almost certainly need to do a bit of internet browsing to find out the odd bit of info at some point. Even once you’ve become pretty adept at it, there’ll always be some new info you want to find out about. Depending on your viewpoint, that’s either a good thing or a bad thing. I’ve been playing since beta back in 2015, and it still feels like there’s a whole load of stuff I still need to master and find out about. Personally, I think that’s a good thing. It probably has a lot more in common with games like ETS2 and IL2 than it does with games like Freelancer or Everspace.

I think at the end of the day, you’re either really into the idea of flying around in a 1-1 scale representation of the galaxy in a sandbox environment, or you’re not. Because if you boil it down, that’s really the meat and bones of ED, that backdrop and setting. Sure the ships and the combat are second to none, they’ve really nailed that. But if the thought of flying about in that 1-1 scale galaxy and landing on a planet in close orbit around a gas giant and then looking up and seeing it there in front of you on the horizon, if that doesn’t get the juices flowing, then I’d say don’t bother, because that’s the magic sauce that glues ED together.

I probably don’t need to add that it’s bloody amazing in VR too.