I’ve not argued that the cyberpunk genre was communist, I’ve argued that it is anti-capitalist. Which you can, without having to follow Marx’s materialism. The whole point is that it is a rebellion against the system, as a Dystopia it rarely offers a solution and rather focus on pointing out the flaws in the system, often in a very pessimistic vibe.
But I think that direct OPPOSITION to capitalism is a big part of what makes cyberpunk what it is.
I don’t think that any of those books offer specific “post-rebellion” solution, it’s an anarchist mindset that rebels against megacorporation, an example of a world that is no longer salvageable and that shouldn’t be emulated.
(I’ve posted a direct quote from one of the CP2020 books that clearly rebels AGAIST capitalism and Pondsmith said that the thesis of Cyberpunk is “Cyberpunk is a warning, not an aspiration”)
Also, if anything a world controlled by mega corporations that elevated themselves past governements is a ancap world (Or, “libertarian” as Americans call them.) And Cyberpunk is a definite critisism of that world. It’s a dystopia for a reason, one that went way too far off the rail to be fixed through “normal” means.
But heh, Read it however you’d like.
So, I’m not trying to determine the politics of the Cyberpunk genre. I’m saying that it has an Anti-capitalist message. The politics of that message will obviously diverge from one author to the other. BUT almost every Cyberpunk setting paints a dystopian world of Anarcho-capitalsm, where governements and states have been stubdued by megacorps. That’s a “right wing Libertarian” world shown as a dystopia.
(It’s as if you told me that BioShock was pro-Objectivism because of how much the universe is mirroring Ayn Rand’s stupid ideas.)
Well, I’ve seen patrols of corporate cops in the street with ED-209-style mechs around the industrial bits of the city & around the corpo towers.
Hum, none of what you said afterwards relate to the fact that in the game 99% of the opposition is either gangs, or purposefully as a response from a direct attack from V. The corporations are never the enemy in the game. (even Arasaka, you fight “them” because the mc guffin V needs is in their headquarter, not for any reason, at the game’s mid-point a quest needs to firmly point V back towards Arasaka, because otherwise, there’d have been no reason to engage with them again. )
Thank you for being patronising. No, I meant Word for Word, I played in English, it’s a massive RPG that you haven’t finished yet, but yet you assume I misunderstood the meaning of “word for word” ?
I’ve pasted earlier a screenshot of one of the book that directly points at capitalism being the issue. The way Cyberpunk 2020 was described was “A Warning.” I do not believe that the cyberpunk genre is either socialist nor progressive. But I believe that it has strong anti-establishment and anti-capitalist views. That the point of a dystopia is to show off the errors and problems of that system. I don’t think that Cyberpunk 77 should’ve been pro-communism, or socialist, that would have been a very hard thing to do. But I think that within the game, there needed to be some message about figthing the system & the power. Cyberpunk as a genre is about showing how the world it creates is fucked up and how technology can be used to destroy people’s life when in the hands of companies with nothing but their own interest in mind.
“A warning, not an aspiration” hints that we can do better. That the Dystopia of Cyberpunk ought to be something not to look forward to.
Thanks for highlighting my point? Indeed. Cyberpunk 77 Lacks the criticism of its world that are present in most other Cyberpunk stories, and almost regards fondly some aspects of its universe.
Anticapitalism is not the same as socialism.
Nihilism is a philosophical movement, not a political ideology. Punks have been Anarchist at large mostly in their messages as it is a fight against the powers that be.
that’s no how I would describe punk. But even taking your own definition, it is pretty much what Cyberpunk 2020 was about. Living on the edge of society, angry, looking at a world gone mad.
Direct quote from the first page of CP2020 :
And the first class introduced : Rockerboys.
I don’t think I’ll respond to your next message, between your patronizing attitude and the weird conflation of Anti-capitalism with Socialism I don’t feel like arguing with you is either fruitful or interesting.
Hope you enjoy your holidays.